What’s the point of a godparent who doesn’t believe in God? This weekend I was on Channel 4′s 4Thought programme giving my opinion on just that.
As an atheist I haven’t had any of my children christened, it’s just not something that I personally believe in. I respect other peoples beliefs and faiths, in the same way that I would like to think they respected mine – it’s a matter of personal choice, I don’t feel that there’s a right or a wrong. But as someone who doesn’t believe in a god I would feel hypocritical to stand in a house of god christening my child or commiting to god as a god parent.
Part of me can’t help but wonder if christenings are been kept ‘alive’ more from a misguided sense of tradition than from spiritual beliefs. Is it more because it’s ‘the done thing’ or dare I say it… the party, the celebration? I’m sure that for some people it’s an important part of their spiritual upbringing and so I don’t mean so appear flippant and generalize but are these families increasingly in the minority? I suspect that many people fall in to the ‘I sort of believe in god but don’t actually attend church other than Christmas time, weddings and funerals’ genre. Is religion turning into something that people dip in and out of when it suits as opposed to moral and spiritual guidance for life?
Through the 4thought experience I heard of alternatives to God Parents. Guardians and Guide Parents But what are their roles in a child’s life and why do people chose them? To find out I asked two mothers, one who chose a Guardian and one who chose Guide Parents, and here’s what they had to say.
“My four all have the same Guardian. He is my best friend and we have been together since we were 14. My OH has known him for 25 years and we were both in total agreement that he was THE ONE. We didn’t have a naming ceremony or any other shenanigans we just said ‘Would you be Guardian?’ and he said ‘Of course’. He is very religious and we are not but his guardianship hasn’t involved a religious aspect at all. He looks out for them and, since he FINALLY married a few years ago, his wife does too. He treats them as he has always treated me, with respect, love and a generosity of spirit which they return. It’s like having an extra pair of eyes…a couple of weeks ago he brought to my attention a Telegraph article about going to Uni in Germany for my eldest and he was spot on – it’s right up my boy’s street. His Guardianship has deepened our friendship and has provided my children with another man in their life who respects them for who they are as people.”
Thanks to Christine from Climbing Rainbows for sharing.
“I do not believe in God and always feel hypocritical when I’m in Church – especially for a christening when you are asked to bring this child up as God loving or similar. I have no problem with other people’s faith in God but it is a very personal thing and something those that do believe often take very seriously. I understand why people have faith but I have my own faith and it doesn’t include god. I don’t want to make a mockery of their faith.
I don’t feel comfortable in a christening environment, especially if I don’t believe the parents are religious either. To me it just feels wrong and like lying. I couldn’t pretend I was religious to get my child into a better school for the same reason. I understand why people to do it but for me personally, I don’t feel comfortable with the lie. For similar reasons, when we got married we had a civil service (in a beautiful Cyprus setting but that’s another story).
However, I did want to ‘welcome’ Callum into the world, and introduce him properly to my family and friends. I heard about Naming Ceremonies and Humanist services at the London Wedding Exhibition and the more I read about it the more right it seemed for us. Stuart and I thought carefully about who we wanted as Guide Parents. We wanted people who would have a positive influence on his life as he grew up. We therefore chose people who we thought would be long time friends and would be involved in his life as he grows up. Each Guide Parent has a special role. One is to advise on career & money issues; one emotional support and the other couple (married) are there for general life support (basically everything and anything) – as they were our closest friends (we lived opposite at the time) we wanted them to be like a close aunt and uncle to Callum.
From what I understand God Parents in a christening used to be people you would entrust your children to should anything happen to you, the parents. I could have that wrong but that is what I was told. We believe that’s what your family are for – which is why we chose friends not family.
There was a Humanists transcript for the day – I wrote the bits relating to the Guide Adults and their responsibilities and I wrote the poem for Callum. Even the rest of the service was written personally for us based on an informal chat/meeting we had with the Humanist Celebrant (in person not over the phone) – she really wanted to get to know us and to get some insight into our lives and what type of boy Callum was.
Now we are starting to make plans to do the same for Millie later this year. We have already chosen her Guide Parents who have accepted their involvement in her life and are already showing enthusiasm for their role. Now we just need to find the perfect setting and venue for a welcome befitting her.”
Thank you to Debbie from My Pregnancy – Mummy Diary for sharing.
It’s great to hear of the alternatives out there, have you used an alternative to God Parents? How do you feel about the role of God Parents? All views welcome and respected.
I'm Annie and I live in the depths of the New Forest. Mother to many, wife to one, blogger, creative type, lover of real books and a bit of a lush.
I have similar feelings about christenings and have turned down the offer of being a God parent because I do not have faith. I did not want to stand and lie in church despite feeling very privileged to have been asked.
We had naming ceremonies for our boys, we met with family and friends for a camping weekend and did our own naming thing around a campfire, it was lovely to welcome them to the world in this way. We did not chose guardians but asked generally that people would look out for our children.
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Thanks for sharing that Corinne. I have also declined to be a god parent in the past and it’s always a very tricky thing to handle isn’t it? As you say it’s such an honour to be asked and to think that you are so highly regarded by a friend or family member but that inner belief that you have to be true to yourself too. I really felt that it would be hypocritical of me to agree as I have no faith and that ultimately that isn’t a great example or basis for some way mentoring or supporting that child.
I love the sound of the naming ceremonies, so informal and personal x
Mammasaurus recently posted..What’s the point of a godparent who doesn’t believe in God? A look at Guardians and Guide Parents
Great post Annie, very thought-provoking. We had a bit of a challenge with both our wedding and T’s christening, because my husband is more religious than me. It’s not usually a big deal – I’m not anti-religion, and he doesn’t go to church every week or anything – but it was important to him that those two things involved an element of Christianity. We found compromises that we were happy with. Our wedding was a religious ceremony, but it took place in an old library. T’s christening had a religious strand to it, but it took place in an outdoor labyrinth, and there was poetry and guitar music and non-religious readings too. It very much felt – to me anyway – like a day where T was welcomed by our friends and family and surrounded by love, rather than a day where we made any kind of commitment to God. He has two godfathers and a godmother, each of whom I would trust with his life. I think they will all provide him with excellent guidance as he grows up, but not necessarily of a spiritual kind.
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What wonderfully creative settings Ruth! I especially love the line “where T was welcomed by our friends and family and surrounded by love” as that’s exactly what every parent wants for their child and the whole ceremony , in my eyes, should be all about the child x
Mammasaurus recently posted..What’s the point of a godparent who doesn’t believe in God? A look at Guardians and Guide Parents
I’m very much of the same opinion. For me, there is no place in my life for God or Religion, however I respect that other people feel differently and that’s fine. I never got my eldest christened, despite being advised to when he was newborn, and his outlook seemed bleak and we did the same when the twins were born, despite protests from the MIL.
And this is what annoys me. As you pointed out, it’s the people who christen their children for the ‘party’ that doesn’t sit comfortably with me. It makes a mockery of those who do take the ceremony of a christening seriously, as a deeply spiritual and meaningful thing – which is why I don’t usually attend.
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I was asked by two of my mother-in-laws in the past ‘When are you getting him christened?’
My reply was that ‘Well I’m not religious, you know that’ and shrugged it off.
It was met however with a ‘But we are, the rest of our family are ‘.
I stuck to my beliefs but was made to feel rather selfish which I thought was an unnecessary shame.
Which like you I find as a bit odd!
Mammasaurus recently posted..What’s the point of a godparent who doesn’t believe in God? A look at Guardians and Guide Parents
I admit, I had my first son christened because it’s what we did in our family. I was a single mum and didn’t think anything of it because every baby in our family had been christened, my Nan made the christening cake and the gown was passed from family to family.
I asked my best friends to be god parents and we had the party afterwards.
When I met my husband and we had our first child together I mentioned the christening and he gave me a strange look.
I asked him what was wrong and he said he was surprised I wanted a christening when neither he nor I was at all religious (I don’t even go to church at Christmas!). I replied, because that’s what you do when you have a baby!
We had a long discussion and decided not to have any kind of ‘ceremony’; everyone who needed to had already been to see her and as there was no religious aspect we didn’t see the point.
Both of our girls can decide for themselves when they’re older what religion, if any, they want to be and as for god parents/guardians etc, we’ve got a massive family and great friends who are always there for anything our girls need and will continue to be there as they grow
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Friends and family who grow up around a child arguably have the greatest influence on a child’s upbringing – lovely for a child to have them around.
Thanks for sharing!
Mammasaurus recently posted..What’s the point of a godparent who doesn’t believe in God? A look at Guardians and Guide Parents
Interesting!
My older 2 kids were born and bred in Italy so I didn’t think twice at having them christened as everyone did, it’s almost law over there – or was back then (1988 – 1990). I certainly wasn’t going to upset the MIL by opposing.
When the twins came along here in Ol’ Blighty’ (2008) I hadn’t set foot in a church for years and no intention of doing so, so it seemed very hypocritical. I chose not to christen them and I’m happy with that decision.
I have my beliefs but they don’t fit in with the Catholic church I was brought up in and I HATE to hear people have been going to church just so they can get their kids names on a school list. That really bugs me.
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Woah! School lists?! I’ve not heard of that – that happens? Madness!
Mammasaurus recently posted..What’s the point of a godparent who doesn’t believe in God? A look at Guardians and Guide Parents
I feel very much the same and am not comfortable in having a christening when I don’t believe in God. I respect the decisions of others that feel the need to however find it quite hypocritical when people get their children christened if they are not religious and are doing it ‘just because’. That is my personal opinion.
Thanks for that, we feel similarly then
Mammasaurus recently posted..What’s the point of a godparent who doesn’t believe in God? A look at Guardians and Guide Parents
I am a god-parent to several children, but all their parents knew beforehand that I am not religious, so it was up to them really! I did feel a little awkward at the big uber religious Catholic ceremony that took place for one of them, but the Mother had insisted that she wanted me as one of the god-parents, and I have a good relationship with that particular god-daughter. We had a humanist wedding, and humanist naming ceremonies for our children. There were a few tuts from the family (not mine!) about them being non-religious events, but it was our decision at the end of the day, and we are not in any way religious. I also hate the church attendance thing to get into better schools. PS. You were fab on the telly!
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*blushes* Oh my behave! I looked terrified!
I am still getting over the whole going to church to get into a good school thing that I read in Mari’s comment above!
Mammasaurus recently posted..What’s the point of a godparent who doesn’t believe in God? A look at Guardians and Guide Parents
Really interesting post. I was asked to be a godparent for a close friend’s daughter even though she knew I was an atheist. I made it clear again before I accepted that I was thrilled to be asked but I couldn’t commit to giving any spirtual guidance. And although I know the parents understand and just want me to be a part of their daughter’s life, it still felt hypocritical in church.
I’m now expecting my own child in May this year and have been thinking about what to do as I would like to have some special friends involved in my child’s life. I love this Guide Parents idea, I’m definitely going to look into this as an option. Thanks for the post : )
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Oh wow glad you found it useful and I’m sure that whatever you choose will be what’s right for you. Ooo May – not long to go! I say ‘not long to go’ it probably seems like blooming ages away but trust me – it’ll fly by!
Thanks for commenting x
Mammasaurus recently posted..What’s the point of a godparent who doesn’t believe in God? A look at Guardians and Guide Parents
I’m a non-practicing catholic myself, my wife is very much agnostic. I haven’t been to church in years but when our boys were born and we made the decission that the best thing we could for our richard was to let him go I couldn’t think of anything other than “lets get him christened”. I still believe in God not the way I was brought up but I would say I’m somewhere in between a catholic who doesn’t like what the catholic stands for and an agnostic. So we had richard christened the CoE way. When it came to our wedding and Alex & Eddies christening we decided to go for a registry office wedding and a christening in church. For us it felt more important to give friends and family a proper title in our children’s lives.
I do really like your point of view and I’m thinking of writing my own post on this subject!
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Ooo if you do Markus be sure to give me shout – I’d love to read it x
Mammasaurus recently posted..What’s the point of a godparent who doesn’t believe in God? A look at Guardians and Guide Parents
This is really one to get us thinking! Thanks for posting. I am a godparent to a wonderful 18 month old and so very, very proud to be. BUT I’m not a practising Christian and haven’t had my own children baptised. Whilst I don’t believe in the god of organised religions, I do believe in a divinity, of a sort, or at least that there is something bigger ‘out there’ than just us little human beings, here by some sort of fluke of nature. Perhaps that ‘something’ is just the collective human consciousness. Or the spark of energy that created life. I don’t need to know… but I have a sense of something.
As my goddaughter grows up, I hope to be able to assist in her spiritual up-bringing with that perspective. Although I won’t necessarily use Christian language, my own sense of spirituality will enable me to add a wider perspective on what she learns in church. I had a discussion just two days ago with my own daughter about Hell. It was a great opportunity to explore the metaphysical angle and to encourage her to find her own truth within. Would be delighted if you fancied reading it: http://thelovingparent.com/if-im-naughty-do-i-go-to-hell/
I also think that formalising a relationship with an adult from outside the immediate family unit has great benefits to a child: They learn that they are considered and important to others and they have the opportunity to feel ‘special’ and be nurtured by other grown-ups too, as part of the godparent-godchild relationship.
So – YES – I do think there’s a point in atheist godparents.
x
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Thanks for taking the time to comment so comprehensively. I’ve read your post ‘If I’m naughty do I go to hell?’ and I must say I really enjoyed it – especially the discussion between yourself and your daughter. And interestingly it’s made me think that maybe you can have spiritual upbringing with out being religious. Thank you for that too x
Mammasaurus recently posted..What’s the point of a godparent who doesn’t believe in God? A look at Guardians and Guide Parents
Really pleased to hear you enjoyed it and found it useful. x
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Really interesting post – thank you.
I was raised Catholic while my husband is CofE. Our first two children were baptised as newborns in the Catholic church which I attended, but which we didn’t go to as a family. By the time No3 was born we had moved and were worshipping as a family in our village CofE church (in a school hall!). His baptism was a real celebration of his joining our church family, and felt very special.
Lots of families who don’t come to our church have their babies christened, and it’s always within our family Sunday services. As you say, I think they have lots of reasons for choosing a religious ceremony & I respect our priest for welcoming them – it’s lovely to see them. When there are (on rare occasions) those who treat the whole thing as a joke & laugh & carry on throughout it I do wonder why they didn’t do something different – if they think it’s a load of nonsense or worse, then naming ceremonies or parties are a much better idea.
As an aside, I think we should *all* give thought to the aspect of legal guardianship for our children in the event of the worst happening & make sure that we have our preferences properly recorded.
A great point there – about the legal guardianship aspect. A financial provision is something to consider too, my first husband and I have three children together and have been divorced for a number of years but we both have life insurance policies which should hopefully help avoid unnecessary financial difficulties if anything happens to either of us.
Thanks for sharing x
Mammasaurus recently posted..What’s the point of a godparent who doesn’t believe in God? A look at Guardians and Guide Parents
I didn’t have my children christened after they were born as I wasn’t a churchgoer so felt it was wrong. When my youngest was 2 1/2 I decided to start going to Church as it was something I had always wanted to do but hadn’t as it wasn’t a thing in my family. In the end I was christened at the same as my children, I was 32 and they were 2 and 3. We struggled for Godparents as none of our freidns and family are believers. In the end we chose my sister’s husband and my brother in law as both had been confirmed and we felt that we needed some family representatives. In addition some member so the Church acted as sponsors for me and the children.
That’s interesting Bec and how lovely for you all to be christened together in the faith that you cherish x
Mammasaurus recently posted..What’s the point of a godparent who doesn’t believe in God? A look at Guardians and Guide Parents
I am a practising Catholic and had my wee man christened. It was very important occassion to us and we managed to have alot of our family there to share in the occassion. It was a beautiful service as it was part of the whole mass and everyone celebrated with us. Our church had also recently been renovated with a new baptismal font and as the first baby christened in the font we actually got a lovely carved piece to take home. Anyway I am babbling. Our best friends are my wee man’s god parents and they hold Christian values (one is not a catholic and the other is not an overly practising catholic) which is what is important to us. That they would always have a special place in their lives for my wee man which they have!
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It sounds like a very special occasion and that you have a strong friend and family network around you which is wonderful to have. Thanks for sharing x
Mammasaurus recently posted..What’s the point of a godparent who doesn’t believe in God? A look at Guardians and Guide Parents
Really interesting and thought provoking post – and the comments have also got me thinking! We chose not to have our daughter christened for the same reasons. Neither of us are religious and, for us, it just didn’t feel right. I have friends and family who have had their children christened, sometimes because of a strong faith and sometimes because of a sense that it’s the “done thing” and will help their child have more opportunities in the future. For me, that doesn’t sit quite right, so we chose not to do this with our own daughter. I love the idea of Guide parents but, to be honest, we have a very close family circle and some beloved friends and it would have been impossible picking just one person!
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To be honest I hadn’t even thought of alternatives before now, I just assumed that it was something that you either did or didn’t do which why I have loved reading Christine and Debbie’s experiences and those in the comments. I’ve learned things today – which is always a good thing!
Mammasaurus recently posted..What’s the point of a godparent who doesn’t believe in God? A look at Guardians and Guide Parents
OOH fab post – I was once asked to be a godparent for a friend’s child – I’d describe myself more as an agnostic… ish… and I wasn’t totally opposed to it, until I realised the parents were only christening their baby so the child could marry in a church if they wanted to when they were grown up! No regard whatsoever to all the religious stuff!
I politely declined.
I mean… REALLY!
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It’s odd, I don’t believe in any faith but I do find it really wrong to use faith purely as a springboard to a better school or a church wedding in later life – kind of seems to make a mockery of the people that do have genuine and strong beliefs.
Mammasaurus recently posted..What’s the point of a godparent who doesn’t believe in God? A look at Guardians and Guide Parents
This is really interesting – you made me realise that although our son nominally has a godparent, we haven’t and don’t intend to actually get him baptised into any faith! We just wanted to make sure that his godfather was an ‘official’ part of his life, I guess. Guide would be a much better way to describe it.
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My husband is a godparent for a friends daughters but just in a named way, there was no ceremony, nothing religious, nothing sworn anywhere. The father and my husband have been lifelong friends and therefore it seemed like the natural progression for them, but yes far more like guide than god too x
Mammasaurus recently posted..What’s the point of a godparent who doesn’t believe in God? A look at Guardians and Guide Parents
I also saw that programme and it made me stop and think.
I’m catholic, I’m too lazy to go to church, but each time I go, I actually enjoy the spiritual sense of it. I don’t believe in the ‘rules’ of the church, but I believe in being kind and if my daughter can hear that message from teachers / priests etc, I am all for it.
The problem is that in the UK religions are fighting each other and everything becomes less about spirituality and more about competition. In Italy, sunday school was 45 minutes playing and 15 minutes praying – talking – listening.
Having said that, one of my daughter’s 3 godparents is jewish, because to me it is more about the person than the dogmatic values at the end of the day.
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This is an awesome post, really thought provoking. Im a catholic myself and take my role as godparent to my neice & nephew seriously, although Im the worst catholic at the moment as we haven’t been to mass in ages.
I do feel really strongly, alot of friends have had their children christened, I’ve attended smiled sweetly and gone along with the whole thing. Why get your children christening if your didn’t have a regilious ceremony when you married. We’ll get number two christened but the process of godparents is stressing me out, for me its its a long process, I wont someone who will be a gaurdian to my children both physically, emotionally and spiritually
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Is it only me that finds it sad that things have to get as equally prescriptive from the non-religious side of the fence as from the more usual culprits are the religious insisting on hellfire and damnation !
For those who are not and have never been religious, don’t judge those that have done a religious ceremony when they are not that religious : the feeling of ‘it is what is done’ is not necessarily a bad thing – tradition and custom is a huge part of the success of civilisation and humanity. Having a child is a profound experience, that often brings you back to facing the ‘big questions’ of life that religion is there to answer – faith is an ongoing renewal and examination of ‘what is it all about?’ even for the most devout.
In addition respect for others’ beliefs is surely no hardship, most especially when you don’t share them. If you are not worried what a God might think, then why worry where it is held or what their motivations might be ?
As to what is the point – It is important to mark important occasions! I’m not that pleased that I am getting older but if everyone chose to ignore my birthday, I would be hurt that I wasn’t worth the effort. My children love the photos of their big days, and all of the loved ones, some of whom are no longer with us, are valued by them as part of their ‘history’ – in exactly the same way as our wedding albums bring joy to us time and again. Why would you want to deprive your child of that ?
The distinction between celebration and party is also blurry. I agree it should not be held in a church so the mother gets to wear a big hat, but it is absolutely a celebration of a new life, an addition to the immediate family, the wider community and humanity as a whole that should be trumpeted. Sometimes it is only christenings, marriages and deaths that bring families together, so it is a shame not to use the reason of a fabulous new addition to get together, in whatever format you like.
(However, whilst it doesn’t matter to me if the whole caboodle attending the church ceremony are religious or not, but they must be respectful and not chat and laugh as someone else mentions above. If you are in charge of an unruly party, please take it upon yourself to address the situation !!)
As to accepting the honour – whichever ceremony / event / party is held, it is a great honour to be asked, and I would suggest that the only valid refusal is if you can’t commit to deliver the succour and support that child will need for the whole of its life. As the other contributor said, spirituality isn’t the preserve of the religious. I would suggest however that you clarify what the parent expects of you in the role. If it is to be specifically religious, then you are right to want to point out your reluctance / inability to deliver – if they don’t care, why would you ?
Finally, on choices, ours were very definitely selected to be able step in and actively care for our children should something happen to us both. We chose a mixture of friends and family for both our children, and made it a decision for the ‘couple’ of whom we might only be asking the one to be the actual godparent – As we eventually had two kids, we one half of a couple was for one child and the ‘other half’ was for the second child, as we – perhaps morbidly – anticipated that a couple would be more likely be able to take the two children in together. That said, we did in fact choose the wife of one friend who was dying of cancer at the time and sadly only survived 6 weeks more. Our daughter loves the fact that her godmother is even closer to Jesus, and I know that she herself was thrilled not to be considered ‘redundant’ in her final few weeks. The christening was in fact her last outing, so all the more poignant for that. Her husband continued the earthly role of godparent to her brother and herself, and his new wife has taken on the mantle of step-godmother with vigour.
There is just so much more to it than ‘do I believe or not ?’
Interesting!!
We had our eldest christened. We’re not religious at all, but since we got married with a celebrant in a park I thought our parents might like a proper christening. Also might have had something to do with our two very old family christening gowns that I really had to use.
I was OK with it, it was a lovely day and I like the tradition, but husband is a stronger atheist than me and he felt ver uncomfortable. For our second we had a naming remind in the garden. While I know some of our older relatives had a grumble, the day itself was more “us” and we still got to use our gowns! Result!
On the subject of godparents: both our children have them. I wanted them to have people outside of the family they could go to for advice if needed…. and we chose people who we felt would offer the right advice. Plus I just think its a nice thing o do.
This is so weird. I was having the exact same conversation with my younger sister a couple of days ago. She’s pregnant and despite not being religious in the slightest, is going to have her child christened. I myself am an Atheist, yet I was brought up Catholic and was quite religious up until about 18yo. I only started calling myself an Atheist and feeling confident with it when I was pregnant with my first son in 2006. I have two boys and decided not to get either of them baptised, despite pressure from my family (who aren’t even blooming religious themselves!). My sister was saying that she isn’t going to ask me to be a ‘God parent’ because she knows I couldn’t stand up in church. It did hurt a little at first, and I was quite angry because why couldn’t she just not get the child christened. Why do non-religious people still feel they need to do this? I mentioned having a naming ceremony or something similar, but she was stead-fast. After a few very deep breaths, I just had to leave her to her decision. It’s her life, her child. The thing is though, I’m the one made out to be the barmy one in the family because I have ‘opinions’. Face palm!
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Neither I nor BS will be Christened because neither Mummy nor Daddy is very religious, and like you, they felt it would be a bit hypocritical. The biggest problem it’s caused is with my granny who is very religious and was threatening to take me off and get me christened in secret! Mummy and Daddy think it’s more important for me to investigate all options and find my own faith, and they’ll back me with whatever I choose.
Rather than god parents, because I’ve not been christened, I have two Fairy Godmothers (Mummy’s oldest friends) and Mummy’s Fairy Godmother to their little girls. It’s more about general guidance and support than anything specifically religious – someone to speak to in the future when I hate Mummy!
Interesting subject, thanks for tackling!
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